There he was, in February 2017, on the cover of Time Magazine: Steve Bannon, chief strategist of the White House. They called him “The Great Manipulator.” He sometimes threatened to eclipse the president himself – not the best option in his career – and for a time he visibly fell from grace.
Time Magazine 
But to this day, Bannon remains a staunch Trump supporter. “When Trump decides to actively leave the stage, he cannot be replaced,” he said. “Like Washington or Lincoln, these are people whose ages they give.”
Yes, Bannon mentions Trump in the same way as Washington and Lincoln. “Oh, I am,” he said. “I think he’s on that level. Because I think General Washington was there for the birth of the nation; Lincoln was the rebirth of the nation; and I absolutely believe (and I think 99% of MAGA members believe) that Trump was there for the salvation of the nation.”
Bannon is a man of unwavering commitment. He did four months in prison for contempt of Congressfor refusing to testify about his role in the events that led to January 6 assault on the US Capitol (including telling podcast listeners on January 5, 2021: “All hell is going to break loose tomorrow”).
He put together an influential podcast, “War Room”: Two in the morning, two in the evening. It was in his studio that, on September 29, we sat down for an interview.
Bannon clearly has a taste for the right. “Certainly, there’s no doubt about it,” he said. “I’m right-wing; I’m not conservative. I’m right-wing and I’m proud of it.”
The Great Manipulator is, by most accounts, once again in regular and friendly communication with the president. But Bannon has no illusions. If Democrats take control of the House in a few weeks, the “MAGA era” is at risk. On his podcast, he announced: “If we lose the House, it will turn the White House into Fort Apache. »
Bannon told us what he sees as the repercussions of a Democratic victory: “I think you’ll see Bobby Kennedy impeached, I think you’ll see Pete Hegseth impeached. I think you’ll see subpoenas every day. They’ll be looking to destroy President Trump, and we’re going to be stuck for two years.”
He thinks it’s a compelling argument for voting Republican this year – even though polls show may not be so convincing to the majority of American voters. “But you don’t need the majority,” Bannon says. “Here’s my point about the midterm: Remember, midterm elections are always driven by base removal and the base’s ability to turn out more low-propensity voters.”
Bannon has few, if any, illusions about the agenda of old-line Republicans who are “all out to overtake Trump.” But he disagrees that his own future lies beyond Trumpism. “First of all, President Trump, I would say I’m the leader trying to get President Trump to run for a third term,” Bannon said. “It seems like he’s not interested or it just won’t happen.”
He does not admit that the idea of a third term for Mr. Trump goes against the 22nd Amendment of the Constitution limiting a president to two terms. “Oh, I think you could drive a truck with this amendment,” he said. “I talked to constitutional scholars and there were, I think, a number of different alternatives. Would it be challenged? Yes, it would be challenged, because everything (Trump) does is challenged in the courts.”
The war with Iran
The president also faces the same enemy as his predecessor: old age. But Bannon doesn’t consider President Trump, who turned 80 this year, to have lost a step or two. “Oh, I don’t agree with that,” he said, saying the president works 20 hours a day. Nor does he dismiss the president’s rambling speeches (such as his recent suggestion that Iran would “eliminate” Los Angeles or San Diego).
“I wouldn’t call them ‘drivel,'” Bannon said. “President Trump is known for going off-script.”
CBS News 
Any suggestion that Americans are embarrassed by Mr. Trump leads Bannon to level accusations of media bias. “Ted, if you’re part of the media elite, if you’re part of the East Coast elite, if you’re an Atlanticist, what President Trump did, yeah, you’re not going to like him and you’re probably going to hate him,” he said. “I understand that this war is a huge problem. But I think American workers are not embarrassed. They support President Trump and the way he presents the United States.”
Despite polls which show a majority of Americans oppose war with IranBannon said: “Let’s divide the war. If you look at the first part, the 12 day war, and President Trump, the total annihilation of their nuclear program…”
Interrupted with the knowledge that Iran’s nuclear capabilities have not been “totally” wiped out“, Bannon replied, “I think it’s pretty faded. What we are doing is destroying their economy through Scott Bessant’s economic war, given what he is doing with their currency, given the blockade on oil.”
The power of cinema
Interviewing Steve Bannon still offers occasional surprises. If democratic socialists sometimes propose positions that make more traditional Democratic candidates wince, count on Bannon to find a hidden advantage for Republicans, while appearing to praise the opposition. “These people are very focused,” he said. “Some candidates may stay away from the mainstream, but they have a basic game that people need to understand that they have dedicated people and they are going to vote.”
Bannon reminded me that he got into politics by making films for the Tea Party: “I had a very particular vision of that,” he said. “It was very populist, very nationalist. Critics came and said, ‘Hey, this is fascist cinema.’ And I said, ‘Look, Leni Riefenstahl was one of the most powerful filmmakers of all time.'”
Indeed, she was. Riefenstahl gave the Nazis a mythical appearance. His coverage of military parades and the 1936 Berlin Olympics, in films such as “Triumph of the Will,” influenced filmmakers for decades, including Bannon. In Alison Klayman’s 2019 documentary “The edge”, Bannon was heard asking: “What would Leni Riefenstahl do? How would Leni put together this scene?
But above all, Riefenstahl was known as Hitler’s image maker. “She was amoral and she was a filmmaker for the Nazis, but her films were very powerful,” Bannon said. “And what I was trying to do was try to recreate the power of those films to make sure that people, especially the little guy, understood that they could have a voice.”
Over the past nine years, Steve Bannon has cultivated ties to far-right movements across Europe. In March 2018, he spoke before the annual congress of the French National Front, telling Marine Le Pen and her supporters: “You are part of a global movement that is bigger than France, bigger than Italy, bigger than Hungary, bigger than the whole country.” »
He is also close to Germany’s fiercely anti-immigration party, the AfD, which recently won a state election in a landslide. “Alternative for Germany is now here to teach us,” he said. “They went out into the field, and what they did was go door to door, and they convinced people who didn’t have campaign money that our way, our policy is to reindustrialize Germany, to stop this mass immigration, this re-migration, are policies that you should vote for. I think we can learn a lot from them.
A question of fascism
When asked if the United States was moving toward fascism today, Bannon replied, “It’s not fascism. It’s actually more inclusive, it’s more entrepreneurial.
Except President Trump lost the 2020 election. “That’s not true. We won!” Bannon exclaimed.
Actually, Joe Biden won. “That’s not true,” Bannon disputed.
CBS News 
Facing more than 60 lawsuits, all of which Mr. Trump lost alleging election fraud, Bannon responded: “We can debate this issue another time, but we had no standing.” We never even went to court. »
Bannon technically correct; they had no standing to act. They couldn’t find a judge who thought they had an important case worth hearing. So, for six years, they have kept repeating the same thing.
But with midterms are approachingBannon was asked how he would bet on the outcome. “I would put all our chips in the middle of the table and say, ‘Guys, there is no retreat and there is no substitute for winning. Let’s fight like hell,'” he said.
Is he suggesting that Republicans can’t afford to lose? “Oh, we can’t afford to lose. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that,” he said, asserting he would do whatever it takes to win the fight. “Exactly.”
WEB EXCLUSIVE: Watch an extended interview with Steve Bannon (Video)
Story produced by Dustin Stephens. Editor: Ed Givnish.
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